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"Stay away from those Game's children. They're the gateway to the Devil !!!! "

What is Magic ? Is it card tricks or men escaping from locked water tanks ? Is it the twinkle in someone's eye ? Is it Goth chicks acting out scenes from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, thinking one day they'll be like Willow ? Well avoiding Hollywoods marketing ploys.... Magic is the unknown. That what can not be explained. & a way to sell books called wicka or something.

Yes I'm ignoring the Wiki definition... Most likely made by fat guys who wear black silk & call themselves Lastat.

Science & technology in a time before explanation or understanding may have been called magic. Anything that lacks understanding or logical pattern can be magic. If I were to pick two words for magic: Uncomprehending & Uncontrollable.

Looking at all the video games I've played over the year, Not one has magic, & I've played a lot of RPG's. Video game magic is clearly defined & understood. They're not really spells, more like invisible gun clips. A fireball spell is really a Grenade. Mana for most attack spells are just like gun clips or a quiver of Arrows.

Still nothing more clearly effects a game & sometimes defines it by it's view of magic. All types of players play games for what they can not do in real life, & magic is mascot of these games.

A long time ago I made a list of aspects needed to make an interesting game. Magic as important as it is made my list at #8, but clearly effects the flavor of the entire list. Under magic I made a list of Key words that can or should define magic:

Scarcity: Is magic common in your game ? Do you have magic schools in your game with teachers & desks ? Or is it something rare or lost ?

Mystery: Yes magic should be mysterious, unclear, magical you might say. Or is it as clear & common as matches in your game ? If it's the latter, it's not magic, just a technological replacement. You can do that if you want, but magic has another role to fill.

POWER: Oh yes. Cantrips are cute, but why have them when you have a bow & arrow to fill that spot. Magic is something to be feared.

Cost: Does a spell cost a bit of invisible mana or do you have to sell your soul for your trick ? In most games magic has little down side. Mana really is a gun clip in a way. Use it then loose it. Drink a potion to reload. Magic can have a greater cost. I'm not talking about reduced fighting stats for mage classes. Those are just an excuse to allow magic with only the cost to the skill that player never uses anyway. Are you sure you want to unleash the awsome "power" of the unknown ?

Seduction: Only a mad man would use such a thing. Even with that said, the temptation of magic spells or items can make the desperate take chances or ignore warnings. The one true ring really isn't all that bad after all. They just say it's bad because they don't want you to have it.

Ok, might as well make it a poll:
How important is magic ?
[EDIT] This isn't just a rant. Make your own list people.

Hmmm... this is a good one.
I think that magic could be alot more of a mystery then usual in games, but not to exaggerated. If you would make magic something with a high risk, a lot of people would probably be too scared to take the risk to do something beyond average power. But, if this is so, you would have a select few ''brave'' ones (or just people who don't give a shit) that would take the risk and could end up as a miserable pile of limbs or as the most powerful person in the game.... After typing this I hope this still makes sense

Older RPG's.. or actually real rpgs.. Put aside all those FF stuff. Magic is much more magical.. FF magic is like.. yeah like you said gun clips.

I liked the way the classic RPG's were made, like Lands of Lore, you had much more interesting spells . Or Arx Fatalis, which is a bit newer. Now that game has an really interesting casting system, and spells to.. Stuff like lighting torches, and stuff.. and much more crap like that.

Well in a game, you cant really make different spells than offensive or defensive spells... I mean what kind of RPG would it be, if you were fighting monsters and you made them choose a card.. and you show em tricks, and they die?.. Wtf . I think magic is much more interesting if its... magical. And not as FF games, an normal attack. I hope you get what i mean with that.. Also Ultima Online had fun magic spells, stuff like change identity, you get a new look and name.. fun stuff. Thats the kind of stuff i like haha xD.

Seing you have an FF avatar, im not sure if you played the "real" RPG's and not just FF kind of stuff.. Since if you havent played the older RPG's, non anime rpgs, then your missing alot of stuff..

I honestly dont see FF type games as an RPG.. its more like an adventure.. time based, or how you call it.. game.

Spell goes wrong - Sideeffect - Name goes backwards

Can really tell you played Ultima 7 etc
A real game.
Ultima 7 had good spells to learn from, espcially ones like time stop and armageddon, haha.

Magic was moved from a "occasional" think to a "bust out a spell every second" to appeal to the audience. People just find it more fun to constantly cast pretty spells and blow stuff up. As for being important to games, I think it depends on what the game is. I myself am trying to put a reasonable explanation behind everything in my game's world, not "you cast fireballs because you study a lot, are really smart, hold a staff and stuff about energy." I have no "magic" in my game, nor do I ever plan to. But of course, that doesn't work for every genre. Magic is only as important to a game as the designer makes it.

True , i agree with spodii and the fact some games are spell every second.

it will be neat to see what kind of game magic , programmers reading this forum topic will come up with.



My hypothesis to why their isnt much magic in games lately is probably due to the following, limited experience created graphics using Direct x leaves a game tasteless.

Maybe the more we start teaching rpg game programmers, the more they can develop their own spells??

i've always felt 'magic' was overdone. historically/mythologically the wielders of such power had to go through various trials to master the mystic arts. i would love to see more of that in games. if you want to have some kind of elemental power send the player on a vision quest of sorts. make the spells more powerful, but since it would be so difficult to obtain the power in the first place it would serve as it's own balance. there should also be more consequences to using the spells too. instead of some mana pool that is depleted, why not have a powerful offensive spell take away life. as the mage becomes more skilled, casting a spell would take less of a physical toll leading to less of a loss in health.

Err, there's not enough magic in games you're saying? I think you missed the point of the topic.
Magic seems to be oh so generic now, with it basically being a replacement for guns in a medieval world when there's so much more depth and story behind magic in older games etc and so much more thought put in to spells other than "buff this" "damage this"

you can consider technology a form of magic, just aiming to achieve results by using what ever means

.... its a cheaper way out atleast

eh, i prefer games that have magic aka the reason i have Fianl Fantasy fanatic in my sig dont get me wrong games without magic are ok but comeon your gonna tell me it wasnt cool when you casted meteor in ff9 and it fell from the sky crushing your opponents or when you casted ultima and you had a seizure

While I like the concept of magic, games don't pay attention to detail when it comes to magic, and I never find magic very important in a game. D&D games have magic, but why use it if you can simply press a button over and over again to kill the enemy? Magic is simply a filler skill in most games. It isn't necessary, but it makes things more interesting.

I vote 1-2. Though I could guess 1-2 means it's ranked #1 or #2 on top importance. Ha.

So any Idea's yet ? Here's something from the tome of magic. It's not much put it's a small step in the correct direction:

When ever a mage casts a spell, there is a chance the spell is a few levels higher or lower then the casters ability. More interesting is with every cast, there is a 5% chance of a Wild Surge that can have completely random effects. Just for fun. Here's a site with a "Wild Surge Generator" as they call it. It's looks good for pen/paper games. After that is an old chart for wild surges. Don't ask me if they're related.

http://www.slacknhash.com/wild_surge_generator.php

d100
Roll Results
01 Wall of force appears in front of caster
02 Caster smells like a skunk for spell duration
03 Caster shoots forth eight nonpoisonous snakes from fingertips; snakes do not attack
04 Caster’s clothes itch (+2 penalty to initiative)
05 Caster glows as per a light spell
06 Spell effect has 60(FM) radius centered on caster
07 Next phrase spoken by caster becomes true, lasting for 1 turn
08 Caster’s hair grows on foot in length
09 Caster pivots 180 degrees
10 Caster’s face is blackened by a small explosion
11 Caster develops allergy to his magical items; cannot control sneezing until all magical items are removed (allergy lasts 1d6 turns)
12 Caster’s head enlarges for 1d3 turns
13 Caster reduces (reversed enlarge) for 1d3 turns
14 Caster falls madly in love with target until a remove curse is cast
15 Spell cannot be canceled at will by the caster
16 Caster polymorphs randomly
17 Colorful bubbles come out of caster’s mouth instead of words (words are released when bubbles pop); spells with verbal components cannot be cast for 1 turn
18 Reversed tongues affects all within 60 feet of caster
19 Wall of fire encircles the caster
20 Caster’s feet enlarge, reducing movement to half and adding +4 penalty to initiative rolls for 1d3 turns
21 Caster suffers same spell effect as target
22 Caster levitates 20 feet for 1d4 turns
23 Cause fear within a 60(FM) radius centered on the caster; all in radius except caster must make saving throw
24 Caster speaks in a squeaky voice for 1d6 days
25 Caster gains X-ray vision for 1d6 rounds
26 Caster ages 10 years
27 Silence, 15(FM) radius centers on caster 10(FM) (TS) 10(FM) pit appears immediately in front of the caster, 5 feet deep per level of the caster
29 Reverse gravity beneath caster’s feet for 1 round
30 Colored streamers pour from caster’s fingertips
31 Spell effect rebounds on caster
32 Caster becomes invisible
33 Color spray from caster’s fingertips
34 Stream of butterflies pours from caster’s mouth
35 Caster leaves monster-shaped footprints instead of his own until a dispel magic is cast
36 3–30 gems shoot from the caster’s fingertips; each is worth 1d6 (TS) 10 gp
37 Music fills the air
38 Create food and water
39 All normal fires within 60 feet of caster are extinguished
40 One magical item within 30 feet of caster (randomly chosen) is permanently drained
41 One normal item within 30 feet of caster (randomly chosen) becomes permanently magical
42 All magical weapons within 30 feet of caster are increased by +2 for 1 turn
43 Smoke trickles from the ears of all creatures within 60 feet of the caster for 1 turn
44 Dancing lights
45 All creatures within 30 feet of the caster begin to hiccup (+1 to casting times, –1 to THAC0)
46 All normal doors, secret doors, portcullises, etc. (including those locked or barred) within 60 feet of the caster swing open
47 Caster and target exchange places
48 Spell affects random target within 60 feet of caster
49 Spell fails but is not wiped from caster’s mind
50 Monster summoning II
51 Sudden change in weather (temperature rise, snow, rain, etc.) lasting 1d6 turns
52 Deafening bang affects everyone within 60 feet; those who can hear must save vs. Spell or be stunned 1d3 rounds
53 Caster and target exchange voices until a remove curse is cast
54 Gate opens to a randomly chosen Outer Plane; 50% chance for extraplanar creature to appear
55 Spell functions, but shrieks like a shrieker
56 Spell effectiveness (range, duration, area of effect, damage, etc.) decreases by 50%
57 Spell reversed, if reverse is possible
58 Spell takes physical form as free-willed elemental and cannot be controlled by caster; elemental remains for the duration of the spell and its touch causes the spell effect (THAC0 equal to caster’s)
59 All weapons within 60 feet of the caster glow for 1d4 round
60 Spell functions; any applicable saving throw is not allowed
61 Spell appears to fail when cast, but occurs 1–4 rounds later
62 All magical items within 60 feet of caster glow for 2d8 days
63 Caster and target switch personalities for 2d10 rounds
66 Slow spell centered on target
65 Target deluded
66 Lightning bolt shoots toward target
67 Target enlarged
68 Darkness centered on target
69 Plant growth centered on target
70 1,000 lbs. of nonliving matter within 10 feet of target vanishes
71 Fireball centers on target
72 Target turns to stone
73 Spell is cast; material components and memory of spell are retained
74 Every within 10 feet of caster receives the benefit of a heal
75 Target becomes dizzy for 2d4 rounds (–4 AC and THAC0, cannot cast spells)
76 Wall of fire encircles target
77 Target levitates 20 feet for 1d3 turns
78 Target suffers blindness
79 Target is charmed as per charm monster
80 Target forgets
81 Target’s feet enlarge, reducing movement to half normal and adding +4 penalty to all initiative rolls for 1d3 turns
82 Rust monster appears in front of target
83 Target polymorphs randomly
84 Target falls madly in love with caster until a remove curse is cast
85 Target changes sex
86 Small, black raincloud forms over target
87 Stinking cloud centers on target
88 Heavy object (boulder, anvil, safe, etc.) appears over target and falls for 2d20 points of damage
89 Target begins sneezing and is unable to cast spells for 1d6 rounds
90 Spell effect has 60(FM) radius centered on target (all within suffer the effect)
91 Target’s clothes itch (+2 penalty to initiative for 1d10 rounds)
92 Target’s race randomly changes until canceled by a dispel magic
93 Target turns ethereal of 2d4 rounds
94 Target hastened
95 All cloth on target crumbles to dust
96 Target sprouts leaves (no damage caused, can be pruned without harm)
97 Target sprouts new useless appendage (wings, arm, ear, etc.) which remains until dispel magic is cast
98 Target changes color (canceled by dispel magic)
99 Spell has minimum duration of 1 turn (e.g.: a fireball creates a ball of flame that remains for 1 turn, a lightning bolt bounces and continues, possibly rebounding, for 1 turn, etc.)
100 Spell effectiveness (range, duration, area of effect, damage, etc.) increase 200%
***THAC0 means the attack accuracy***
***Many words/phrases are spells in D&D***
==============
Looks like 50% of the voters here rate magic at 7-8: Very important, but not all important.
25% voted 11+ Extremely important. Don't even make a game withoput it. Magic is it's soul & point of the game. "The Ballet was confusing...."
"How about a hand recount?"
"OK"
"SLAP!"

That is actually a really nice list, not to copy off of but just to get ideas from. When I was trying to come up with skills for Plagued Dead, I read through just about every skill from WoW, RO, Diablo, and a few other games I could find, just to try to spark ideas.

i like the idea of random accidents occurring when trying to cast spells. it would also be interesting if instead of constantly running to a trainer for new spells, the can be uncovered in the same way. you attempt to cast fireball, but instead the target explodes. you learn explosion and can now cast it at will.
could be worked out in a way to where even starting players have access to high level spells, but with a large chance they will backfire or cause something totally unrelated instead. the more skilled they become, the less chance of error when casting, and instead will have a chance of casting a similar but stronger spell.
at level 1 you cast super badass fireball... fireball fails, you turn into a sheep.
at level 10 you cast super badass fireball... fireball does a ton of damage to your target.
at level 20 you cast super badass fireball... your target, his family, friends, and fellow townspeople burst into flames.