vbGore Free Online RPG Engine

ArchKnight went into this in another topic but I thought it'd be better in its own. Basically, the idea is to get people away from the obsessive urge to power-level and become the best.

Now why avoid power-leveling? Why shouldn't players just be allowed to do it in peace if they want to? Well for one, you rarely hear people say they enjoy power-leveling. Theres a variety of reasons people do it, mostly it is to become either the best, or in the higher-levels. It is often less enjoyable to power-level than it is to take your time to explore, do quests, etc.

In my eyes, theres two major reasons this happens:

1. In MMORPGs mostly, but also some smaller-scale RPGs, game content becomes a very costly process because it takes a lot of time. For every new monster or item you add, you have to think of what makes it different from the rest, worth fighting / using, make graphics for it and make sure it is balanced with the rest of the game. Because of this, it is easier to just put in a mob of level 1 monsters in one place, level 5 ones next to them, level 10, 15, etc. No creativity, just a linear scale of progression. You end up spending often starting an hour at one mob, 3-4 at the next, then days on the same mob after that. People get the idea that once you get passed this all, there may be something more fun to do.

2. Games put such a heavy influence on high-level characters. This is good in the company's perspective, since the longer someone plays, the more money they can charge them. Take WoW for instance - every time I tell someone I hate that game since it is so god damn boring, they always respond with, "Well, its fun once you get to higher levels" (referring to around level 40+). So what are you supposed to do in the mean-time? If everything else sucks, you have either two options, quit or power-level until you can do something fun.

So the question is how can you avoid this? What approaches would you take?

well if you give little to no bonuses to high levels then it wont be as good to get but some might still just want that number...

You could have fighitng as its own thing to level up in a way... if you think about it fighting only gains you experience in... well fighting... it doesnt help you grow mentally or anything like that..

maybe have quests give you experience in your main growth... so you ONLY can level up with them... maybe also add other things to that that give exp.

That would take away the grind of just killing monsters... unless you wish to become a better fighter. But you could also have that done differently.

Then people would be forced to do quests. Also you could have different stats gained from quests depending on factors... such as how fast you complete... maybe enduranace, speed so on. If its a riddle or quiz like quest maybe have you gain intelligence or wisdom. You could maybe have forks where you can either do it with diplomacy or with brute force... each giving different stats.

Just some ideas its a base that could be tweaked...

power leveling/grinding is my main argument for trying to drop the level system as a whole. problem is, it's the easiest way for a developer to give some sense of progression.
honestly as long as there is some type of number value associated to the player, be it a character level, skill level or even amount of gold, you're going to have people speeding to get to what ever the cap is. there really is no way to prevent this, and no matter how much content you try to add in on the way to a level cap, most people will skip over it just because it's the way they've become used to playing. the community of a game is just as much at fault though. when all the high level players have the 'you don't matter cause you're not level 100' attitude, everyone rushes to join their ranks. sad thing is, most of those people actually suck at the game too, because they sped through so much of the content they never learned most of the game mechanics.

oh and whoever told you WoW is only fun when you get to the higher levels is so wrong. it's the most fun when you hit around 20 and you get the majority of the skills that define your class. after that it's just grinding and macros. everyone always says you can't say it's a bad game until you hit endgame, well endgame is nothing but repeating the same raid over and over for some item everyone else says you need to have. where's the fun in that?

Well it seems kind of simple to me...

In your example of WoW; people say it's only "fun" at endgame (well, for me--after having 3 epicc'ed 70s, nothing in that game is fun). Well what happens in the later levels that doesn't happen while leveling? Take those components and try to incorporate them the best you can in the leveling process.

For instance, if a game has an amazing PvP system at level cap (arena-style combat, RvR, etc.), try to incorporate that same system throughout all of the levels of gameplay. I never understood why games have always made the "leveling" process a fairly 'solo' and very 'PvE' process. If the game delivers excellent an excellent PvP system...or amazing dungeon/party systems...why not use those systems during the leveling process and make the game fun all the time?! :O

But I believe you've already answered your own question... $ $ $ $

The problem with PvP leveling is that it is either going to be easily abused or very crappy way to level.

One cool thing I saw in Redmoon Online was that there was arenas set up throughout the game with level caps, so that way you won't have a level 99 power-gamer dominating all the weak level 10 dudes. Though, it was nothing more than an arena. It would be nice to find some way to incorporate EXP into an arena battle without having it easily abused. Just giving people exp per kill can easily result in a high level vulnerable character (ie mage) to be beating senseless by a lower level. Lowering EXP on death doesn't really bring any new EXP into the system, either.

Maybe organized small (around 4 people) battles that happen only every X minutes where the winner gains EXP. But along with that, every time you win, you progress to the next "stage", and if you are the first to die, you go down one - everyone else stays on the same level. You only gain exp if you win, you don't lose any. This keeps people on the fighting of those near equal to them resulting in some good and close battles, along with prevents you from cheating the system for EXP as easily.

The problems I see with this, though, are:
- People can make sure they die first so they can win their next fight easily. This could probably be fixed by making 2 winners (last one left gets more exp than the other winner) and 2 losers, making it pointless to TRY and lose. In fact, that sounds a hell of a lot better...
- You are going to need a LOT of players (at least over 50, though over a few hundred would be better)
- People who just join after doing a lot of PvE or enemy fights are going to be in the wrong ranking. You may have to write a check for if they level a few times outside of the arena to automatically place them in what you believe is right for them just so they're not so far off.

Hell, I'm liking this idea now, I think I might actually try and use it. MINE!

Sounds good. Exept im more of a raider myself my game is about raiding Hell. Good F***ing luck because when you come to the last stage you battle satan and all the ones you allready killed . So to everyone that wanted to play SwordFall... beware that last little stage

EDIT: still working on the desert thogh

My upcoming world, Ymir, is going to address the power leveling issue in various ways. We plan to give greater bonuses from quests than from fighting random people. You will be allowed to fight anywhere, so higher level players may attack you, but we'll employ police to hunt down mass murderers. This creates a more multiplayer experience resembling cops and robbers.

You could allow players gifts in random events and take the exp stat away from fighting. This would make leveling non-existent. However, if my world were like that, I'd have some skills available to level up, like cooking and crafting. This takes a page from Runescape, I suppose.

The arena idea was done many times before, but I love it.
I was thinking of having a fighters guild, like in Fable. You'd find a guild, and if you're worthy of that guild, you can fight there. No level cap, though. Instead, you get more exp for losing than for winning. If you win, you can brag, but if you lose, you learn to fight better.

I believe that a party quest system is the way to go.

I've seen it used in games such as maplestory.

But if you make a party quest interesting and have good items to be gained from it, people would want to do it more often.

So how is this going to stop power leveling?
Well, put a lvl limit in it.
It would prevent high level people doing it and not letting others have a change at it and it make people not want to power level.

Level limits have been proven over and over to not prevent people from wanting to power-level. Look at how many people power-level in games like WoW.

As for party quests systems, I personally hate them, especially in Maple Story where the average intelligence of the player was around that of a 10 year old and they typed like English is the 4th language. To make good party quest systems, you're going to have to have players people actually want to interact with.

Yeah and what's the point when every quest is "GO KILL THIS AND GET 9 MILLION OF THESE" even in a party

i didnt take the time to read everyone else's posts so if i say somthing that someone already said forgive me ^^

1. make a script so that enemies will automatically target the weakest player in the area

2. put a cap on teams(if you have them) like you can only team with people 5 levels +/- your current level

hmmmmm and i think that should do it

Uh, how well that help at all? The noobs die a lot more than usual? Big whoopie that doesn't change much

Tanking is only one way of power-leveling. That is just a way someone can power-level YOU. Most power-leveling is done solo, though.

to throw my 2 cents in on that party questing idea. god how i hates it. it burns! it burns!
first problem is searching for a group, which unless the quest results in some uber phat lootz reward takes forever. second when the random pick up group is finally formed, you are always stuck with at least one complete asshat that causes problems the whole time. forced grouping never leads to a good game experience unless you already know people to group with, which new comers, people who play rarely, and people who lean more toward solo play in favor of hanging out chatting with everyone wont have.

that is too true. I can't stand the extremely low maturity level and intelligence of the players on maplestory. Only reason I play it is because mot of my friends do.